David L. Jones

Hi
Kind of a newbie printing question.

I just tried to print a large photo at my local digital print store
(Harvey Norman) which uses a huge Fuji printer connected to those
usual "print kiosks".
It looks fantastic on screen here:
http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Sturts.jpg

Very bright and a large difference between the red on the tips of the
flower and the orange on the rest of the flower. At least that's how
it looks on my new unadjusted ViewSonic LCD and another higher spec
Dell monitor.

When I printed it I got this:
http://www.alternatezone.com/images/SturtsPrinted.jpg

You'll have to forgive the angle of the shot and the exposure etc,
taken indoors under flouro's at night, but I believe it shows the
actual difference I'm concerned with accurately.

As you can see, almost no orange in the flower at all, it's all a
consistent red colour.
The image was printed without any adjustment or colour correction,
just load and print.

I also got several other shots printed at the same time and they all
came out with an extra (large) red tinge too. Easy to see given that
one was a sunset shot and another with outback red dirt, they turned
out *much* redder than I expected and certainly much greater than on
screen.

I know the basics about RGB / CMYK differences, but I thought that
CYMK would just be "duller"?

Given that these print kiosks are designed for the average consumer
who has no idea about such things, I would have thought the machine
would be expecting RGB photos and do whatever it needed to do to
correct.
Anyone know what the actual problem might be?

Someone already mention it might be a gamut problem??

Perhaps the Fuji machine was just set up incorrectly somehow?

BTW, I get a correctly rendered colour result on my crappy i250 Canon
inkjet on normal paper.

Thanks
Dave.

Doug Jewell

David L. Jones wrote:
> Hi
> Kind of a newbie printing question.
>
> I just tried to print a large photo at my local digital print store
> (Harvey Norman) which uses a huge Fuji printer connected to those
> usual "print kiosks".
> It looks fantastic on screen here:
> http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Sturts.jpg
>
> Very bright and a large difference between the red on the tips of the
> flower and the orange on the rest of the flower. At least that's how
> it looks on my new unadjusted ViewSonic LCD and another higher spec
> Dell monitor.
>
> When I printed it I got this:
> http://www.alternatezone.com/images/SturtsPrinted.jpg
>
> You'll have to forgive the angle of the shot and the exposure etc,
> taken indoors under flouro's at night, but I believe it shows the
> actual difference I'm concerned with accurately.
>
> As you can see, almost no orange in the flower at all, it's all a
> consistent red colour.
> The image was printed without any adjustment or colour correction,
> just load and print.
>
> I also got several other shots printed at the same time and they all
> came out with an extra (large) red tinge too. Easy to see given that
> one was a sunset shot and another with outback red dirt, they turned
> out *much* redder than I expected and certainly much greater than on
> screen.
>
> I know the basics about RGB / CMYK differences, but I thought that
> CYMK would just be "duller"?
>
> Given that these print kiosks are designed for the average consumer
> who has no idea about such things, I would have thought the machine
> would be expecting RGB photos and do whatever it needed to do to
> correct.
> Anyone know what the actual problem might be?
>
> Someone already mention it might be a gamut problem??
>
> Perhaps the Fuji machine was just set up incorrectly somehow?
>
> BTW, I get a correctly rendered colour result on my crappy i250 Canon
> inkjet on normal paper.
>
> Thanks
> Dave.
My guess is that their kiosks are set to automatically
provide colour adjustment. Basically, those kiosks punch up
the saturation to all buggery so that the average punter
gets nice bright pictures that they like. Unfortunately for
those of us who like to control how the images come out, ...
well you get the picture.

Firstly, which type of kiosk have they got? There are fuji
kiosks where there are a bunch of kiosks attached to one
central "Frontier" printer, and then there are others where
there is just a small printer directly attached (usually
underneath) the kiosk. If it is the latter, you're basically
screwed - find another place to get prints. If it is the
former, then there are 2 ways to go about it.

Assuming they are running a frontier system, very unlikely
the printer itself is out of whack, because these things
pretty much take care of themselves. The machine forces you
to do daily calibrations, so even if the operator is a
complete moron who doesn't give a rat's arse about your
photos, chances are the machine itself will still be
correctly calibrated. They are pretty hard to get wrong.

Which leaves the kiosks...

Most Fuji kiosks at HN/Rabbit etc, are running a program
called Whitech. This software can be configured one of 3 ways -
*Full-time automatic correction - most frequent
configuration - because thats how the punters like their
prints, but it sucks for those of us who like control
*No Automatic Correction - rare. It's good for those of us
who like control, but the average punter thinks their photos
are drab.
*Prompt the user - 2nd most common option - it will prompt
at the last few screens where it asks things like
matt/gloss, CD, Index etc. This option can be easy to get
wrong because of the way the question is asked.

So, chances are either the lab you went to has full-time
auto correct, or you accidently chose to do
auto-corrections. What I would suggest you do, is take the
image back to them, along with the printout from your canon,
and ask the operator to manually print it from the
controller computer (The fuji term is "DI"), with no
automatic adjustments. That should get the right result.

Doug Jewell

Doug Jewell wrote:

> So, chances are either the lab you went to has full-time auto correct,
> or you accidently chose to do auto-corrections. What I would suggest you
> do, is take the image back to them, along with the printout from your
> canon, and ask the operator to manually print it from the controller
> computer (The fuji term is "DI"), with no automatic adjustments. That
> should get the right result.
Oh yeah - should add that the standard Fuji config doesn't
allow printing from USB drives from the DI, so probably best
if you take the image in on CD or a memory card.

It's easy enough to set the DI up to use thumb drives, but
if they are Fuji maintained (which I imagine most mass
retailers would be), Fuji kinda get upset at modifications
to their configuration.

David L. Jones

On Aug 10, 7:13 pm, Doug Jewell <a...@and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote:
> David L. Jones wrote:
> > Hi
> > Kind of a newbie printing question.
>
> > I just tried to print a large photo at my local digital print store
> > (Harvey Norman) which uses a huge Fuji printer connected to those
> > usual "print kiosks".
> > It looks fantastic on screen here:
> >http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Sturts.jpg
>
> > Very bright and a large difference between the red on the tips of the
> > flower and the orange on the rest of the flower. At least that's how
> > it looks on my new unadjusted ViewSonic LCD and another higher spec
> > Dell monitor.
>
> > When I printed it I got this:
> >http://www.alternatezone.com/images/SturtsPrinted.jpg
>
> > You'll have to forgive the angle of the shot and the exposure etc,
> > taken indoors under flouro's at night, but I believe it shows the
> > actual difference I'm concerned with accurately.
>
> > As you can see, almost no orange in the flower at all, it's all a
> > consistent red colour.
> > The image was printed without any adjustment or colour correction,
> > just load and print.
>
> > I also got several other shots printed at the same time and they all
> > came out with an extra (large) red tinge too. Easy to see given that
> > one was a sunset shot and another with outback red dirt, they turned
> > out *much* redder than I expected and certainly much greater than on
> > screen.
>
> > I know the basics about RGB / CMYK differences, but I thought that
> > CYMK would just be "duller"?
>
> > Given that these print kiosks are designed for the average consumer
> > who has no idea about such things, I would have thought the machine
> > would be expecting RGB photos and do whatever it needed to do to
> > correct.
> > Anyone know what the actual problem might be?
>
> > Someone already mention it might be a gamut problem??
>
> > Perhaps the Fuji machine was just set up incorrectly somehow?
>
> > BTW, I get a correctly rendered colour result on my crappy i250 Canon
> > inkjet on normal paper.
>
> > Thanks
> > Dave.
>
> My guess is that their kiosks are set to automatically
> provide colour adjustment. Basically, those kiosks punch up
> the saturation to all buggery so that the average punter
> gets nice bright pictures that they like. Unfortunately for
> those of us who like to control how the images come out, ...
> well you get the picture.
>
> Firstly, which type of kiosk have they got? There are fuji
> kiosks where there are a bunch of kiosks attached to one
> central "Frontier" printer, and then there are others where
> there is just a small printer directly attached (usually
> underneath) the kiosk. If it is the latter, you're basically
> screwed - find another place to get prints. If it is the
> former, then there are 2 ways to go about it.
>
> Assuming they are running a frontier system, very unlikely
> the printer itself is out of whack, because these things
> pretty much take care of themselves. The machine forces you
> to do daily calibrations, so even if the operator is a
> complete moron who doesn't give a rat's arse about your
> photos, chances are the machine itself will still be
> correctly calibrated. They are pretty hard to get wrong.
>
> Which leaves the kiosks...
>
> Most Fuji kiosks at HN/Rabbit etc, are running a program
> called Whitech. This software can be configured one of 3 ways -
> *Full-time automatic correction - most frequent
> configuration - because thats how the punters like their
> prints, but it sucks for those of us who like control
> *No Automatic Correction - rare. It's good for those of us
> who like control, but the average punter thinks their photos
> are drab.
> *Prompt the user - 2nd most common option - it will prompt
> at the last few screens where it asks things like
> matt/gloss, CD, Index etc. This option can be easy to get
> wrong because of the way the question is asked.
>
> So, chances are either the lab you went to has full-time
> auto correct, or you accidently chose to do
> auto-corrections. What I would suggest you do, is take the
> image back to them, along with the printout from your canon,
> and ask the operator to manually print it from the
> controller computer (The fuji term is "DI"), with no
> automatic adjustments. That should get the right result.

Thanks heaps for that informative reply Doug.
The one I used was connected to a huge floor mounted Fuji printer
behind the counter, so presumably the "Frontier" one you mention. It
was maybe two meters long and had a huge access door in the front
where I saw the operator change presumably a massive print cartridge.

It did ask me if I wanted "automatic correction" near the end of the
process. It didn't explain what this was and I had the photo already
sized and colour adjusted just the way I wanted it so answered NO (I
think).

I'll have to take my own "control" print in next time to make sure I
get them to do it right.

Thanks
Dave.

Doug Jewell

David L. Jones wrote:

> Thanks heaps for that informative reply Doug.
> The one I used was connected to a huge floor mounted Fuji printer
> behind the counter, so presumably the "Frontier" one you mention. It
> was maybe two meters long and had a huge access door in the front
> where I saw the operator change presumably a massive print cartridge.
Yeah, a frontier. What you saw the operator change was
actually the paper. They use the same technology that your
photos have been printed on for years, except instead of
shining light through a negative, lasers paint the image on
the light sensitive paper.
>
> It did ask me if I wanted "automatic correction" near the end of the
> process. It didn't explain what this was and I had the photo already
> sized and colour adjusted just the way I wanted it so answered NO (I
> think).
If you answered no at that last screen, then in theory it
shouldn't have done colour adjustments, but judging by the
sample you have provided, it has anyway. Sounds like they
have their DI set to do automatic adjustments. I'd still
suggest getting them to print it direct from the DI.
Hopefully the operator knows A) how to do it direct from the
DI, and B) how to tell the DI not to do adjustments.
>
> I'll have to take my own "control" print in next time to make sure I
> get them to do it right.
yeah.
These Fuji machines can be a pain to set up to print
correct, because the standard setup assumes that people want
punchy contrasty output. Hate to say it, but a typical
department store may not have staff with the know-how to
change them to print correctly (but there are exceptions).
Try talking to them, and if they seem like they know what to
do straight away then great. If they uhm and ahh, then maybe
you need to look at a different lab. I have no doubt that a
frontier can print your image correctly, it's all the Fuji
software in between that assumes you are a snapshooter that
is the problem.
>
> Thanks
> Dave.