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Old 31st August 2008, 01:56 PM   #31 (permalink)
Marty
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Posts: n/a
Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:435 +1000, OzOne wrote:

> Defensive?
> He walked up and smacked your face!


I think is bitter because he has missed his real calling in life. He
could have been a star at Barnum and Baily, billed as "The Talking Anus".

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Old 31st August 2008, 01:56 PM   #32 (permalink)
OzOne
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Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 0444 +0200 (CEST), Marty
<martywoyzak@communitymail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:435 +1000, OzOne wrote:
>
>> Defensive?
>> He walked up and smacked your face!

>
>I think is bitter because he has missed his real calling in life. He
>could have been a star at Barnum and Baily, billed as "The Talking Anus".


Ahh better than just being an aresehole like you eh.




OzOne of the three twins

I welcome you to Crackerbox Palace.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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Old 31st August 2008, 01:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
Athol
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Posts: n/a
Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists

Marty <martywoyzak@communitymail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 08:54:32 +1000, RogerM wrote:


>> Bullshit! You have the audacity to tell me I'm talking out of my
>> arsehole! I don't give a **** whether you believe me or not. The
>> question was asked by the OP, I made a phone call and that's the info I
>> received. Now go back to dreaming, you idiot!


> If you didn't give a ****, you wouldn't have responded in such a
> defensive manner.


> Who did you make a call to? The local village user car lot manager? Go
> back to your dreams of self importance.


Someone who hasn't got a clue. :-)

I actually saw a review of this camera system on the nightly news around
the time that it was introduced in NSW a couple of years ago.

Here is a bit more reading for those who don't believe:

First, I googled "unregistered vehicle camera" (without the quotes), and
this was one of the first matches:

http://www.caslon.com.au/anprnote.htm#analysis

Note the "5 seconds" quoted for UK systems in the 4th paragraph. That
refers to a system in place before that article was written...

Then scroll down to the next section "applications" and note the 3rd and
4th items in the list.

Sound familiar?

Now that I had the term "automatic number plate recognition", I stuck
that into google, which found the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat...te_recognition
Note that in the "components" section, a figure of around 250ms is quoted
for a roadside system... :-)

In police cars, using vehicle mounted cameras:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/technolog...857476490.html
"the number plate recognition system could check up to 9,000 vehicle
registrations in a shift."

I also found this from NSW parliament:
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pro.../LC20061115015
Sounds entirely believable. Brighton-le-Sands, presumably. Ignore
unregistered vehicles while concentrating on cars driven by known hoons...

What the Australian Privacy Foundation thinks of it:
http://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/ANPR-0803.html

Now you know why I and a few others have plonked Roger and don't read any
of his drivel.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
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Old 31st August 2008, 01:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
Toby Ponsenby
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Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 04:36:18 +0200 (CEST), Athol wrote:

> What the Australian Privacy Foundation thinks of it:
> http://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/ANPR-0803.html


And for those not bothering to follow the link, the important bits are
here:


5. As commonly practised, and as supported by currently available
technologies, ANPR represents a gross privacy intrusion, and in some
jurisdictions breaches privacy law, in the following ways:

* it involves arbitrary collection of personal data not for a
specific, defined purpose to which it is clearly relevant, but
opportunistically and for vague purposes
* it generates a very large database of personal data, containing:
o registration data
o one set ? but very probably multiple sets ? of:
+ the date and time of sighting
+ the location
+ the direction of movement
* the database can be used to draw inferences and generate
suspicions
* the database is a 'honeypot' that attracts attention from many
organisations for many purposes, resulting in 'scope creep'
* the database is impossible to protect against unauthorised access,
resulting in leakage of content

6. As commonly practised, and as supported by currently available
technologies, ANPR is a mass surveillance technique and breaches the
human right of liberty of movement (UDHR 13.1, ICCPR 12.1). More
specifically, with conventional ANPR:

* an unknown proportion of the large data-holdings is unreliable,
and there is no simple or inexpensive way of sifting the accurate from
the inaccurate
* suspicions can be readily generated, some of which are reasonable
and some of which are not, and there is no simple or inexpensive way of
sifting the reasonable from the unreasonable
* embarrassment is created for law-abiding citizens who are
intercepted on the basis of incorrect data and unreasonable suspicion
* danger is created for law-abiding citizens who are intercepted by
a law enforcement officer who has been given wrong information about the
possible dangerousness of the vehicle's occupants
* the deterrent effect on miscreants appears unlikely to be all that
great
* the unjustified chilling effect on law-abiding citizens appears
likely to be much greater than the deterrent effect on miscreants. This
applies especially to the many categories of persons at risk, including
victims of domestic violence, protected witnesses, celebrities, and
undercover law enforcement operatives

7. The practice of ANPR can readily become arbitrary interference by law
enforcement officers, in such ways as the following:

* undue interception of false-positives
* misunderstandings, unpleasantness and altercations between
officers and vehicle-occupants
* further actions in relation to the intercepted vehicle, such as
roadworthiness inspections, bookings for minor transgressions (e.g.
broken light-covers and mirrors), and search on the off-chance of
finding infringing materials such as drugs
* further actions in relation to the driver, such as delay,
questioning and search
* further actions in relation to other vehicle occupants, such as
delay, questioning and search

8. The effects of the practice of ANPR on the public reputation of law
enforcement agencies and individuals can be positive, in that they will
be seen to be active, and to be effective; but run a great risk of being
seriously negative, in that they will be seen to be intrusive into the
activities of law-abiding citizens, and a key part of a 'police state'
apparatus that gathers vast quantities of information about people's
movements.

9. An alternative approach to ANPR addresses many of these issues. The
'blacklist in camera' design involves:

* release from the on-site camera device of only those detections
that match to the current 'blacklist' of registration plates that are
being sought
* certified non-accessibility and non-recording of any personal data
other than that arising under the above circumstances
* substantial controls over the download of the blacklist to the
device and the maintenance of the blacklist
* substantial controls over the quality of data used to prepare the
blacklist, and exclusion of sources of data that are of insufficient
quality

10. Considerable commitment and investment are required in order to
implement the alternative approach to ANPR in the face of the momentum
that has been achieved in some countries overseas by the orthodox,
grossly privacy-invasive form of ANPR.

11. It is vital that ANPR projects be conducted in a transparent manner,
including published information, consultation, privacy impact
assessment, and published results.

12. It is vital that Parliaments expressly preclude inappropriate
designs for uses of ANPR, and expressly authorise appropriate designs
for and uses of it.
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Old 31st August 2008, 02:48 PM   #35 (permalink)
DAvid
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Posts: n/a
Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists


"Marty" <martywoyzak@communitymail.com> wrote in message
news:g9cu6k$kus$1@aioe.org...
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:435 +1000, OzOne wrote:
>
>> Defensive?
>> He walked up and smacked your face!

>
> I think is bitter because he has missed his real calling in life. He
> could have been a star at Barnum and Baily, billed as "The Talking Anus".
>

Perhaps RogerM was right afterall!

http://www.ics.mq.edu.au/~len/prepri...-automatic.pdf

Depending upon the colours used in the plate and the
position of the plate within the frame, the glyphs on the
plate may visually merge with the frame itself, e.g.
figure 1(g,j). This makes segmentation of the glyphs
difficult, particularly if a long stroke belonging to a
character is merged with the adjacent frame. Figure
1(g) shows an example where the horizontal stroke of
the digit '2' visually merges with the frame.
In addition to frames, Australian conditions allow
the plate to be covered with a transparent material. A
popular frame design incorporates a cover with thin
black horizontal lines. If the plate uses black lettering,
the lines visually join the plate glyphs together into a
single image region. If the plate uses a black
background, the lines visually segment the glyphs. The
human observer is not distracted by these features, but
an automated system must explicitly deal with them.
Some Australian must display an additional plate

DAVO


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Old 31st August 2008, 02:48 PM   #36 (permalink)
Athol
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Posts: n/a
Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists

Marty <martywoyzak@communitymail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:435 +1000, OzOne wrote:


>> Defensive?
>> He walked up and smacked your face!


> I think is bitter because he has missed his real calling in life. He
> could have been a star at Barnum and Baily, billed as "The Talking Anus".


And here's why I plonked oz ages ago, too.

Clue: If you want confirmation that you're right about something, if
oz claims that you're wrong, that's confirmation that you're right.

He spends a lot of time supporting woger when woger is wrong...

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
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Old 31st August 2008, 04:18 PM   #37 (permalink)
Marty
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Posts: n/a
Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 04:36:18 +0200, Athol wrote:

>
> Someone who hasn't got a clue. :-)


That is quite obvious

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat...te_recognition Note
> that in the "components" section, a figure of around 250ms is quoted for
> a roadside system... :-)


That can't be right, Woger's mate said so.

> What the Australian Privacy Foundation thinks of it:
> http://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/ANPR-0803.html
>
> Now you know why I and a few others have plonked Roger and don't read
> any of his drivel.


I don't plonk anyone, I enjoy a good laugh.

My main concern about these systems is the privacy issue and how they
could be abused by unscrupulous governments.

As a matter of principle I *always* give a one fingered salute when
passing under Safe-T-Scam gantries

Marty


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Old 31st August 2008, 07:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
OzOne
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Posts: n/a
Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 056:39 +0200 (CEST), Athol
<athol_SPIT_SPAM@idl.net.au> wrote:


>And here's why I plonked oz ages ago, too.
>
>Clue: If you want confirmation that you're right about something, if
>oz claims that you're wrong, that's confirmation that you're right.
>
>He spends a lot of time supporting woger when woger is wrong...


Ummmmmm Arsehole, You're inventing again.




OzOne of the three twins

I welcome you to Crackerbox Palace.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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Old 1st September 2008, 12:07 PM   #39 (permalink)
Kwyjibo
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Posts: n/a
Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists


"Toby Ponsenby" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1n2udqtr225um$.v5k77pn2m5sq$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 04:36:18 +0200 (CEST), Athol wrote:
>
>> What the Australian Privacy Foundation thinks of it:
>> http://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/ANPR-0803.html

>
> And for those not bothering to follow the link, the important bits are
> here:
>
>
> 5. As commonly practised, and as supported by currently available
> technologies, ANPR represents a gross privacy intrusion,


That's a lie. It doesn't collect any information that would allow you to
identify a *person*.

> and in some
> jurisdictions breaches privacy law,


Not in Aus.

> in the following ways:
>
> * it involves arbitrary collection of personal data


Lie. There's nothing 'personal' about it.

> not for a
> specific, defined purpose to which it is clearly relevant, but
> opportunistically and for vague purposes


So do freeway traffic cameras......

> * it generates a very large database of personal data, containing:
> o registration data
> o one set ? but very probably multiple sets ? of:
> + the date and time of sighting
> + the location
> + the direction of movement


Hmmm. Nothing there that would allow the identification of a *person*.
Where's the breach of privacy?

> * the database can be used to draw inferences and generate
> suspicions


So can CCTV, credit card transactions, phone bills, electricity bills, tax
returns............

> * the database is a 'honeypot' that attracts attention from many
> organisations for many purposes, resulting in 'scope creep'


Oh FFS. This is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

> * the database is impossible to protect against unauthorised access,
> resulting in leakage of content


Lie.

>
> 6. As commonly practised, and as supported by currently available
> technologies, ANPR is a mass surveillance technique and breaches the
> human right of liberty of movement (UDHR 13.1, ICCPR 12.1).


Bullshit. "Liberty of movement" refers to having the freedom to move without
harassment. It says nothing about who is allowed to monitor that movement.

<rest of the silly shit snipped>

Do you even read the crap you quote Toby? It'll be really quite sad if you
respond that you do........

--
Kwyj.


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Old 1st September 2008, 02:34 PM   #40 (permalink)
Noodle
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Posts: n/a
Re: Police check catching quite a few motorists

NSW Police have really started intensively using these Automatic
Number Plate Recognition road-blocks in many places in Sydney.

Two weeks ago, they used it on a Friday night in Newtown (NSW), and
pulled over 10 unregistered/suspended rego cars. It was in the paper

Something really needs to be done about this abuse of NSW Police
power....

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