Moses Lim

Reading the previous post on diesel v petrol comparison, I am puzzled as to
why LNG/CNG is not a popular fuel for motor vehicles in Australia.

One theory I have heard is that GovCo makes a lot more $$ from the excise on
LPG. Is this correct?

Thanks for any views on the matter.

Bernd Felsche

Moses Lim <hyspeed@spamtrap_stoneycreek.net.au.spamtrap> wrote:

>Reading the previous post on diesel v petrol comparison, I am
>puzzled as to why LNG/CNG is not a popular fuel for motor vehicles
>in Australia.

Distribution network. Vehicle range.

Energy density and energy requirements to compress the natural gas.

Cost of installation.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Science is the belief in
X against HTML mail | the ignorance of the experts.
/ \ and postings | -- Richard Feynman

George W Frost

"Moses Lim" <hyspeed@spamtrap_stoneycreek.net.au.spamtrap> wrote in message
news:eEKsk.31342$IK1.21959@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Reading the previous post on diesel v petrol comparison, I am puzzled as to
> why LNG/CNG is not a popular fuel for motor vehicles in Australia.
>
> One theory I have heard is that GovCo makes a lot more $$ from the excise on
> LPG. Is this correct?
>
> Thanks for any views on the matter.

Little Johnny Howard legislated to start excising LPG a couple of years ago to be
fully excised by 2012, which will put the brakes on lpg installations

CNG is costly to store and you need a few tanks in a car for normal use
the tanks are something like oxy/acetelyn bottles, not holding much and bloody heavy
the cost was relatively cheaper than LPG to buy, but the drawback was there were no
outlets around the State, only a couple in the city area

At the time I looked, which was a few years ago, it cost 12-14 cents a kilometre to
run on petrol , 7 cents a kilometre on LP gas and it cost about 3 cents a kilometre
to run on CNG

Toby Ponsenby

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 04:40:44 GMT, George W Frost wrote:

> Little Johnny Howard legislated to start excising LPG a couple of years ago to be
> fully excised by 2012, which will put the brakes on lpg installations

And you can rely on Rudd NOT to let go if it. In so very many ways.

Repealing a tax?I'd like to see that...



--
Toby

Olympic Games:
The fervid activities of the shamelessly self-obsessed,
brought to your living-room by shameless self-promoters.
Bonus - it's paid for by the self-deluded.

Noddy

"George W Frost" <georgewfrost@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gPLsk.31371$IK1.6423@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Little Johnny Howard legislated to start excising LPG a couple of years
> ago to be fully excised by 2012, which will put the brakes on lpg
> installations

The excise has already been moved back a few years from when it was
originally due to be introduced (which, from memory was 2009 if I recall),
and the excise itself is all of 15 cents introduced over period of three
years in a series of progressive changes starting from 2012.

A 15 cents per litre hike in the price of lpg will make no difference to the
number of conversions as long as the per litre cost remains under 50% that
of petrol as it currently is.

> At the time I looked, which was a few years ago, it cost 12-14 cents a
> kilometre to run on petrol , 7 cents a kilometre on LP gas and it cost
> about 3 cents a kilometre to run on CNG

Natural gas as a motor fuel has one huge problem, and that is it's calorific
value is appalling compared to almost anything else. It may be cheap, but it
offers the *worst* bang per buck of any fuel around.

It rivals diesel performance, and who the **** wants that?

--
Regards,
Noddy.

D&M JOHNSTON

"Noddy" <me@home.com> wrote in message
news:48b3cb2f$0$94271$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>
> "George W Frost" <georgewfrost@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gPLsk.31371$IK1.6423@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> Little Johnny Howard legislated to start excising LPG a couple of years
>> ago to be fully excised by 2012, which will put the brakes on lpg
>> installations
>
> The excise has already been moved back a few years from when it was
> originally due to be introduced (which, from memory was 2009 if I recall),
> and the excise itself is all of 15 cents introduced over period of three
> years in a series of progressive changes starting from 2012.
>
> A 15 cents per litre hike in the price of lpg will make no difference to
> the number of conversions as long as the per litre cost remains under 50%
> that of petrol as it currently is.
>
>> At the time I looked, which was a few years ago, it cost 12-14 cents a
>> kilometre to run on petrol , 7 cents a kilometre on LP gas and it cost
>> about 3 cents a kilometre to run on CNG
>
> Natural gas as a motor fuel has one huge problem, and that is it's
> calorific value is appalling compared to almost anything else. It may be
> cheap, but it offers the *worst* bang per buck of any fuel around.
>
> It rivals diesel performance, and who the **** wants that?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
Yes I can vouch for what you say about CNG Noddy. When I was with the NSW
Gov Buses, the first lot of Scania buses that went CNG were dogged with so
many problems especially with the Electronic throttle valves (i think that's
what they called them). They jerked, pigrooted & bucked around so much you'd
think you were riding a rodeo horse. They were slow and their range was
about 6 hours of city driving so every half a shift they had to be refueled.
There were some gems in amongst them that went like the clappers but there
were the constant trouble buses as well that were always in the workshop
with fuel supply problems.
They also had many problems overheating but i think that was more to do with
radiator core sizing than a fuel problem.
The scanias were turbo charged whereas the newer Mercedes buses arn't and
you'd nearly need a packed lunch for them to get up to 60kph.

They were comfortable to drive but a pig of a machine when theres a fuel
problem.

Them poor old 26 year old series 3,4 & 5 diesel Mercs just keep on keeping
on with rarely a major problem.

Cheers

DJ

George W Frost

"Noddy" <me@home.com> wrote in message
news:48b3cb2f$0$94271$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>
> "George W Frost" <georgewfrost@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gPLsk.31371$IK1.6423@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> Little Johnny Howard legislated to start excising LPG a couple of years ago to be
>> fully excised by 2012, which will put the brakes on lpg installations
>
> The excise has already been moved back a few years from when it was originally due
> to be introduced (which, from memory was 2009 if I recall), and the excise itself
> is all of 15 cents introduced over period of three years in a series of progressive
> changes starting from 2012.
>
> A 15 cents per litre hike in the price of lpg will make no difference to the number
> of conversions as long as the per litre cost remains under 50% that of petrol as it
> currently is.
>
>> At the time I looked, which was a few years ago, it cost 12-14 cents a kilometre
>> to run on petrol , 7 cents a kilometre on LP gas and it cost about 3 cents a
>> kilometre to run on CNG
>
> Natural gas as a motor fuel has one huge problem, and that is it's calorific value
> is appalling compared to almost anything else. It may be cheap, but it offers the
> *worst* bang per buck of any fuel around.
>
> It rivals diesel performance, and who the **** wants that?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.


Thanks for the update Noddy, as I said, it was a long time ago when I read it and
with Old Timer's Disease setting in, I wasn't sure
One or two taxis in my little village were running CNG, but I think they stopped it
after a year or so and went back to LPG
They were running three systems on the taxis, petrol, lpg, and cng

Moses Lim

Bernd Felsche wrote:

> Moses Lim <hyspeed@spamtrap_stoneycreek.net.au.spamtrap> wrote:
>
>>Reading the previous post on diesel v petrol comparison, I am
>>puzzled as to why LNG/CNG is not a popular fuel for motor vehicles
>>in Australia.
>
> Distribution network. Vehicle range.
>
> Energy density and energy requirements to compress the natural gas.
>
> Cost of installation.

Thanks for that Bernd

Moses Lim

George W Frost wrote:

>
> "Moses Lim" <hyspeed@spamtrap_stoneycreek.net.au.spamtrap> wrote in
> message news:eEKsk.31342$IK1.21959@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Reading the previous post on diesel v petrol comparison, I am puzzled as
>> to why LNG/CNG is not a popular fuel for motor vehicles in Australia.
>>
>> One theory I have heard is that GovCo makes a lot more $$ from the excise
>> on LPG. Is this correct?
>>
>> Thanks for any views on the matter.
>
> Little Johnny Howard legislated to start excising LPG a couple of years
> ago to be fully excised by 2012, which will put the brakes on lpg
> installations

So let me understand this, there is no current excise on LPG?

> CNG is costly to store and you need a few tanks in a car for normal use
> the tanks are something like oxy/acetelyn bottles, not holding much and
> bloody heavy the cost was relatively cheaper than LPG to buy, but the
> drawback was there were no outlets around the State, only a couple in the
> city area

Yeah, I have seen some CNG tanks and they are heavy as buggery. It need a
bit of energy to move them tanks around I tort.

> At the time I looked, which was a few years ago, it cost 12-14 cents a
> kilometre to run on petrol , 7 cents a kilometre on LP gas and it cost
> about 3 cents a kilometre to run on CNG

Price-wise CNG IS cheap but I am guessing one needs a lot more of it.

Moses Lim

Noddy wrote:

>
> "George W Frost" <georgewfrost@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gPLsk.31371$IK1.6423@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> Little Johnny Howard legislated to start excising LPG a couple of years
>> ago to be fully excised by 2012, which will put the brakes on lpg
>> installations
>
> The excise has already been moved back a few years from when it was
> originally due to be introduced (which, from memory was 2009 if I recall),
> and the excise itself is all of 15 cents introduced over period of three
> years in a series of progressive changes starting from 2012.
>
> A 15 cents per litre hike in the price of lpg will make no difference to
> the number of conversions as long as the per litre cost remains under 50%
> that of petrol as it currently is.

Hm,so no current excise on LPG, it seems.

>> At the time I looked, which was a few years ago, it cost 12-14 cents a
>> kilometre to run on petrol , 7 cents a kilometre on LP gas and it cost
>> about 3 cents a kilometre to run on CNG
>
> Natural gas as a motor fuel has one huge problem, and that is it's
> calorific value is appalling compared to almost anything else. It may be
> cheap, but it offers the *worst* bang per buck of any fuel around.

Which makes me wonder why some "experts" I have spoken to in the past
maintain that CNG offer pretty good "bang for bucks". The comparison which
is usually made is that the best petrol available at the bowser is 100
octane, whilst LPG is usually around 134 octane (assuming one gets "good"
LPG, ie high propane content). CNG, OTOH, I am told is at least 148 octane.

Now for a layman like me, 148 octane sounds quite impressive. Am I being
confused with all this octane comparison?

> It rivals diesel performance, and who the **** wants that?

Turbo diesel is supposedly the ant's pant but having said that, I don't
wanna get caught in the crossfire here and end up hijacking my own
thread Down dawg, down!!!