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Old 27th August 2008, 10:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
Noddy
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Re: NRMA mag article ...


"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d7cb0cc3-299e-4d59-8cc3-4191bf68ea6b@25g2000prz.googlegroups.com...

> Yep, and is exactly why there was an airline crash because changing
> over to SI units saw an aircraft being filled in pounds, not kg as it
> ran out of fuel ... Air Canada Flight 143


What, the pilotds doing the pre flight check didn't notice the tanks were
lower than usual, or the engineer couldn't read the guages?

Where do you get this ****ing bullshit from?

--
Regards,
Noddy.


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Old 27th August 2008, 11:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
the_dawggie
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Re: NRMA mag article ...

On Aug 27, 8:50*pm, "Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote:
> "the_dawggie" <the_dawg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d7cb0cc3-299e-4d59-8cc3-4191bf68ea6b@25g2000prz.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Yep, and is exactly why there was an airline crash because changing
> > over to SI units saw an aircraft being filled in pounds, not kg as it
> > ran out of fuel ... Air Canada Flight 143

>
> What, the pilotds doing the pre flight check didn't notice the tanks were
> lower than usual, or the engineer couldn't read the guages?
>
> Where do you get this ****ing bullshit from?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Ok, didn't crash in a dangerous manner, but came close to it.
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Old 28th August 2008, 01:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
Kwyjibo
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Re: NRMA mag article ...


"Noddy" <me@home.com> wrote in message
news:48b531ec$0$94268$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>
> "the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d7cb0cc3-299e-4d59-8cc3-4191bf68ea6b@25g2000prz.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Yep, and is exactly why there was an airline crash because changing
>> over to SI units saw an aircraft being filled in pounds, not kg as it
>> ran out of fuel ... Air Canada Flight 143

>
> What, the pilotds doing the pre flight check didn't notice the tanks were
> lower than usual, or the engineer couldn't read the guages?
>
> Where do you get this ****ing bullshit from?


For once, he's actually partially correct although I wouldn't call it a
crash and the fuel weight conversion was only one factor in the cause..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

--
Kwyj.


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Old 28th August 2008, 01:25 AM   #24 (permalink)
Noddy
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Re: NRMA mag article ...


"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5b36d5ee-698d-4a18-a976-24c31b185697@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com...

> Ok, didn't crash in a dangerous manner, but came close to it.


It didn't crash *at all*, you ****ing idiot.

--
Regards,
Noddy.


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Old 28th August 2008, 03:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
Bernd Felsche
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Re: NRMA mag article ...

"Noddy" <me@home.com> wrote:
>"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message


>> Yep, and is exactly why there was an airline crash because changing
>> over to SI units saw an aircraft being filled in pounds, not kg as it
>> ran out of fuel ... Air Canada Flight 143


>What, the pilotds doing the pre flight check didn't notice the tanks were
>lower than usual, or the engineer couldn't read the guages?


>Where do you get this ****ing bullshit from?


Crash investigators. "Gimli Glider"

Commercial aircraft don't "fill" on many routes.
They take on board enough fuel for the planned flight and diversions
to alternates/delays.

The aircrew specified fuel load in kg. Refuellers filled lb.
Aircrew told the flight computer the amount loaded as kg ... which
is the units in which it operated. The fuel level indicators were
not functioning and a replacement was not available before the
flight was to leave.

There were other, compounding issues but the use of the wrong fuel
units was critical.

The plane would fly slightly further than half-way; because the
weight of fuel would be less from the time of take-off.

A closed-loop flight control system _could_ use the actual dynamics
during early flight in the lift-drag-thrust-weight balance to check
that such gross mistakes (IIRC something like 10,000kg short)
wouldn't occur. But then, who expects that sort of thing?
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Science is the belief in
X against HTML mail | the ignorance of the experts.
/ \ and postings | -- Richard Feynman
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Old 28th August 2008, 03:24 AM   #26 (permalink)
Bernd Felsche
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Re: NRMA mag article ...

"Noddy" <me@home.com> wrote:
>"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message


>> Ok, didn't crash in a dangerous manner, but came close to it.


>It didn't crash *at all*, you ****ing idiot.


Every landing is a controlled crash.

The one under discussion was a lot less controlled than routine.

Structural repairs were necessary to be able to ferry the aircraft
to a maintenance base.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Science is the belief in
X against HTML mail | the ignorance of the experts.
/ \ and postings | -- Richard Feynman
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Old 28th August 2008, 08:57 AM   #27 (permalink)
John_H
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Re: NRMA mag article ...

the_dawggie wrote:
>On Aug 26, 65*pm, John_H <john4...@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>Yep, and is exactly why there was an airline crash because changing
>over to SI units saw an aircraft being filled in pounds, not kg as it
>ran out of fuel ... Air Canada Flight 143


Prolly woulda been dropping outa the sky like nine pins if they'd had
to convert from gallons (whose?) to litres!

>
>Still, by volume diesel has highest energy content
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density


Nah, as I said before anthracite (black coal) shits all over it.

Course it's a well known fact that the shitiest fuels have the highest
energy content when it comes down to volume. ;-)

--
John H
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Old 28th August 2008, 10:26 AM   #28 (permalink)
Noddy
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Re: NRMA mag article ...


"Bernd Felsche" <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:e05go5xil3.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au...

> There were other, compounding issues but the use of the wrong fuel
> units was critical.


So was the aircraft having faulty fuel guages

--
Regards,
Noddy.


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Old 28th August 2008, 10:26 AM   #29 (permalink)
Noddy
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Re: NRMA mag article ...


"Bernd Felsche" <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:cg5go5xd04.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au...

> Every landing is a controlled crash.


If you ant to take things to extremes.

Landing a 30 tonne fighter on the deck of an aircraft carrier is a
controlled crash. Landing an airliner on a regular bit of tarmac isn't.

> The one under discussion was a lot less controlled than routine.


Only in as much as it didn't have power. Gravity did it's bit.

> Structural repairs were necessary to be able to ferry the aircraft
> to a maintenance base.


The plane wasn't destroyed. Nobody died. It *wasn't* a crash.

--
Regards,
Noddy.


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Old 28th August 2008, 10:26 AM   #30 (permalink)
OzOne
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Re: NRMA mag article ...

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:50:16 +1000, "Noddy" <me@home.com> wrote:

>
>"the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:d7cb0cc3-299e-4d59-8cc3-4191bf68ea6b@25g2000prz.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Yep, and is exactly why there was an airline crash because changing
>> over to SI units saw an aircraft being filled in pounds, not kg as it
>> ran out of fuel ... Air Canada Flight 143

>
>What, the pilotds doing the pre flight check didn't notice the tanks were
>lower than usual, or the engineer couldn't read the guages?
>
>Where do you get this ****ing bullshit from?


Gimli Glider incident is well known to many.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Not bullshit...FACT!




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